Curse

bhavv · Jul 28, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Im a little bored of having to rely exclusively on cry of pain for AoE on my PVE mesmer, and thought that the following changes might work (for PVE only of course).

Hex Eater Vortex

Ive mentioned this a few times now, but make the damage and recharge the same as shatter hex.

Energy Surge

Energy Denial is pants in PVE, but this skill does some damage! Bring back its previous wider range and reduce the recharge to 15 seconds.

Mistrust

This spell actually works wonders, but the recharge makes it offputting for PVE. Reduce the recharge to 10 seconds to make it more attractive in PVE.

Clumsiness / wandering eye

Reduce the recharge on each to 7 seconds, similarly, reduce Ineptitude back to 15 seconds to make it viable for PVE again. Right now, they take far too long to recharge compared to how they used to be.

Confusing Images

I think this is the single shot arcane conundrum, but might have the name wrong. Have the slowed down spell also damage the caster for the same small amount that cry of frustration does (44 damage). Otherwise arcane conundrum is still a lot better.

That is all I would like done for the mesmer class.

la_cabra_de_vida · Jul 28, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

There have been hundreds of pve mesmer threds like this, but its not to hard realize that mesmers are not optimal pve characters.

Enix · Jul 28, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Mesmers will continue to be less than useful in PvE as long as Fastcasting remains a less than useful attribute.

Ooooo, casting a 1/4 second skill faster than... what? Interrupting relies on ping anyway, and if your ping is 250, that 1/4 cast is really 1/2 (mine is usually 300+ on Cable!).

All interrupt spells need to become single target Hexes like Mistrust is currently (interrupts at beginning or end of spell casting) to allow for precasting and damage effects need to not rely on only interrupting a skill, similar to Overloard (+damage on interrupt, but also deals unconditional damage).

All existing Mesmer hexes in PvE need to work like Clumsiness - foe and adjacent foes.

FC needs to reduce energy cost of spells just as Expertise does it for skills, (why not FC for spells?) and maybe even speed spell recharge by the same amount.

Make those changes and then and ONLY then will Mesmers be as powerful as any one of the other classes.

gremlin · Jul 28, 2008, 06:29 AM // 06:29

The core to solving any problem would seem to come in fast casting.
Because the object of the exercise it to buff mesmer not lots of *.mesmer builds leading to widspread problems.
Not much point in buffing the fast casting skills either since fast casting has the smallest pool of skills with 9 skills 5 of them elites.

Sadly there isn't any logical reason for creating aoe reduced energy or increased damage simply because fast casting says what it does and if you make radical changes to that area and drastically reduce the casting time across all mesmer skills you really cause problems in pve where the mobs of mesmer creatures could cause havoc.

They could create realistic energy pools for the many creatures out there but again that would cause widespread problems of balance.
So we need a buff to mesmer to make them more effective in pve and thus more popular and fun to use while not causing to many negative effects.

Maybe the solution to the problem is to make mesmer skills really buff whatever they choose as a secondary class, while having mesmer secondary not buffing the prime skills.
Care would still have to be taken in how it was done but that's the only way I can think of to improve mesmers in pve.

Hopefully there will be a place for a mesmer type class in gw2 and I hope lessons learned in gw will be applied, as I think we are unlikely to see major changes here.

Ratman · Jul 28, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

I always use Signet of Illusions on my mesmer.
So it use up to 7 difrent spells of difrent atributes.
One of my favorits is obi flesh + armor of earth.

Keekles · Jul 28, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

FC is great as is imo. It's hard as hell to interrupt a FC water, only way I've been able to annoy them is to divert their spells and strip attunement every time it's up.

FC = fine. The changes he mentioned: seems fine with me. I enjoy playing my mesmer as a SOI bag of tricks though.

Skye Marin · Jul 28, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Aneurysm is prime for a PvE-only buff. Make it scale to 2..12 damage per energy restored, and you're set. Then, all energy denial in PvE becomes worthwhile, and Mesmers have a strong, spammy single-target killing skill. Make a few more hexes AoE, give at least one Mesmer-spell based Daze, and you'll see Mesmers being much more useful in PvE.

tmakinen · Jul 28, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

FC isn't a terribly useful attribute in PvE, and it is even worse for Hard Mode. Hence a PvE only buff to FC itself would make mesmer a more attractive PvE option. Something like this:

For every point of energy drained from a foe, that foe and all adjacent foes take as many points of damage as you have points in Fast Casting (max 80 damage).

(Disclaimer: I do have a (PvP ready) PvE mesmer and she's doing just fine as it is, thank you for asking

)

Hyper.nl · Jul 28, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

/signed for PvE only. ANet has the keys to make mesmers more useful in PvE.

By the way: shouldn't threads like these in Sardelac have a poll to vote for/against it?

HackingHippie712 · Jul 28, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enix

Mesmers will continue to be less than useful in PvE as long as Fastcasting remains a less than useful attribute.

Ooooo, casting a 1/4 second skill faster than... what? Interrupting relies on ping anyway, and if your ping is 250, that 1/4 cast is really 1/2 (mine is usually 300+ on Cable!).

All interrupt spells need to become single target Hexes like Mistrust is currently (interrupts at beginning or end of spell casting) to allow for precasting and damage effects need to not rely on only interrupting a skill, similar to Overloard (+damage on interrupt, but also deals unconditional damage).

All existing Mesmer hexes in PvE need to work like Clumsiness - foe and adjacent foes.

FC needs to reduce energy cost of spells just as Expertise does it for skills, (why not FC for spells?) and maybe even speed spell recharge by the same amount.

Make those changes and then and ONLY then will Mesmers be as powerful as any one of the other classes.

Only then? Your changes would make Mesmers THE most broken class in pve

You essentially want to do the following
All Mesmer spells deal AoE dmg
FC Recharges spells up to 42% faster along with its current ability, and makes spells cost less
Interupts loose the skill the require so any pve scrub can slap them on and 123412341234 spam

Let's face it...Mesmer's arent one of those classes you can goredenginegoredenginegoredengine go on. Surprise surprise you actually have to have some basic thought to use them efficiently. However, if you are capable of that they are one of the better classes in pve

Mesmer for PvE i use the following:
[build prof=Mesmer/Necromancer][Signet of Illusions][Empathy][Backfire][Power Drain][Cry of Pain][Pain Inverter][Necrosis][Blood Ritual][/build]

Nice bit o armor ignoring damage, monk support, interupts, and boss shutdown like its nobody's business all at max attribute i might add. Very very effective in pve and much much much much more effective than ele's in HM

Now...let's add your mesmer buffs to this

Empathy and backfire affect all foes in the area
P-drain and CoP are hexes and interrupt without any effort
All skills recharge 39% faster(almost perma pain inverter, 5 second empathy, 15 second backfire, etc, etc)
Skills cost X less energy

It may just be me....but that sounds RIDICULOUSLY overpowered

Oh and also...FC isnt for the interrupts so much as the mesmer skills with 2+ second cast time spells(of which there are plenty)

So please, dont go demanding a profession needs buffed when you clearly have no understanding of the profession to begin with

upier · Jul 28, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HackingHippie712

Let's face it...Mesmer's arent one of those classes you can goredenginegoredenginegoredengine go on. Surprise surprise you actually have to have some basic thought to use them efficiently. However, if you are capable of that they are one of the better classes in pve

So please, dont go demanding a profession needs buffed when you clearly have no understanding of the profession to begin with

Don't, just don't.
Stating something like this just - especially when paired with a SoI build - just shows a lack of understanding of the most simple PvE rules.

Good for you for having fun!
Just don't confuse efficiency with it.

Mouse at Large · Jul 28, 2008, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Hmmm - sure this has come up before - why not tweak fast casting so it affects cast and recharge times?

More points in fast casting = quicker cast and recharge, but (obviously) less effect from the actual skill cast.

kostolomac · Jul 28, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

I agree with bhavv's ideas , quite nice actually.

I'm only mad at A.net for giving us one less elite , maybe now they could make that up?

@HackingHippie712: nearly everything is effective in pve.
I would like that mesmers are brought a bit closer to the other classes in terms of power.

About FC , a 1% or 0.5% recharge per level of FC.

Or better yet give mesmers an elite similar to AP , that would be the ultimate skill for mesmers (and caster in general).